E10 | Leading with Integrity | Donna-Marie Darlington-Dawes

Welcome to Lead With a Coaching Mindset, a podcast where every conversation sparks new ideas on how the best leaders unlock their followers potential. I am Dr Damian Goldvarg, and I am here to inspire you to become the best leader you can be be sure you subscribe and rate us. Let's jump right in. Today. We are very lucky to have Donna-Marie Darlington-Dawes. I know her for many years, and she's originally from Trinidad and Tobago. She is passionate about leadership development, coaching, and recently, she had been focusing on diversity, equity and inclusion, and she worked for the World Bank. Anything else you want to say about you and your position for people to get to know you?

Well, I'm just so first of all delighted to be on your podcast, Damian, and thanks to those social media platforms that allowed us to reconnect through Lincoln, and so very happy about that. And really and truly, I think you've said it all. I love playing tennis on a social note. I love running. And definitely I am one person that loves to entertain and dance. So that's the the personal side of me.

Oh, fine. We will have that in common. I like dancing too. So when we get in person, we need to figure out a way to dance together in absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, when I send you my book and we were discussing what chapter we may explore together, we decided to go with our first chapter that is about ethical leadership. I was asking you to think about a couple of ideas, example, stories from your experience over so many years. Let's start defining what is ethical

leadership. I think that's a very good question to start with, and it's so absolutely critical in today's climate. And so just setting the tone based on saying what we think it is is most important. So basically, leadership is a practice in general, and so ethical leadership I viewed as a practice of leading with integrity, fairness and transparency, especially as it concerns to making decisions, so not necessarily decisions that are guided by rules or compliances, but basically a deep commitment to values and human dignity and generally for the greater good. So sort of in summary, because we don't a labor too much of that is ethical leadership is the courage to do what is right, the integrity also aligns with actions and the vision to lead with fairness, trust and human dignity. So that's how I would start defining ethical leadership, and something that I really think that we should all be committed to doing as leaders. I

mean, it's interesting, because recently there is, there are a lot of conversations about that, what is and what is not ethical leadership, but to what extent people are really living, aligning to values. And then you have the values of the organization that you're part of and your personal values, absolutely and ideally you want them to be consistent, because when they are not, maybe a problem,

correct, correct? That is well said, well said Damien, in terms of aligning the organizational values with you. But as a human being, you have your own moral values and standards, so you want to make sure that there's synergies with both, and it comes out in the way you lead and the way you act and the way you make decisions and embrace all the different diversities and challenges that we have in institutions today.

One thing is talking about it, but the other things are behaving. So people may say a lot of things, but if the behaviors are not aligned with what they are saying, then people lose credibility. And also you wonder, to what extent there is integrity. You talk about integrity, that consistency between what we say and what we do, and when we realize that sometimes that's not present at the question, what's what's really going on here? What? What is making these people to make these decisions? As you said before, it's about decision making. So when you're making decisions, to what extent you are following some of these values, some of these behaviors that are so necessary in the world today?

Yes, you're absolutely right. And I think one must even add a little bit further that ethical leadership is essential, especially as it builds trust. It builds trusts in institution. It strengthens the culture we talk about, culture, organization, culture, and ensures that decisions are made with integrity and fairness. And basically what I would also add that it definitely safeguards the reputation of the institutions. It promotes equality and creates an environment where people feel valued and respected, and when you feel valued and respected, you're really motivated to give you the best, bringing out the best in people.

Yeah, we cannot give for granted trust. It's like we need to keep. Cultivate that trust. And you know, in my book, The next chapter, after talking about ethical issues, is about trust, because you cannot be an effective leader if you don't spend time intentionally building trust. So here is where there is a relationship between all of these different competencies that an effective leader needs to demonstrate. But when there is not trust, there is not engagement. If people are not following ethical standards, if people perceive you as an unethical leader, they will not trust you. They will not be engaged. And as a result, the whole organization is affected and impacted, but that by that lack of engagement and commitment. But as you know, Gallup research and studies show that the level of engagement in organizations worldwide is pretty low these days. It's only 23% in our last report.

Wow, that is pretty alarming to have that low response. And I'm wondering, Damian, what do you think is responsible for that?

Thank you for that comment. And I am curious, based on your experience in the last few years, you have been focusing on Diversity Equity, and I was wondering, how do you see that in terms of ethical leadership, and based on your experience, I don't know if you have any stories or an example where you can see effective and good examples and strategies around building that awareness and working with diversity issues.

Thank you. Well, in short, my role based in on several different platforms, the diversity role, the leadership role, and both of them being into interconnected as well. Don't see one without the other. It has been modeling the behaviors, I think, modeling and fairness, integrity and inclusion. People look up to folks in the diversity office, or if you're in the leadership space, to help you to tell them to solve challenges that they may be experiencing in particular, organizations like ours, international agencies like the UN and World Bank, we have a real wide, diverse set of staff from all over the globe. And so one needs to start with respecting people, respecting their differences, respecting and embracing them, and also giving them an opportunity to be themselves and feel that they're in a safe space. So I think for me, the space of both leadership and diversity has been so natural for me, bringing out the real me in terms of modeling the right behaviors. And maybe I should just talk a little bit about one particular role that I'm really excited about, that I actually do right. Now is that I serve as the president. This is a corporate citizenship role for women of color. And initially, when we started talking about women of color, just even coming up with the name, was a challenge, because sometimes the word color could be associated with maybe being black, and that might not be embraced by everyone, but we formally, we finally got together to say, women of color from different regions, the African Americans, the folks in the African region, the Caribbeans, the Latinos, the Middle Easterns, you know, all over. Let's come together and talk about how we can support each other. So in that role as the president, I literally find myself being taking an advocate role where I am speaking up for those sometimes what we consider unrepresented voices to make sure that there's transparency and there's equal opportunities for all. So we have those forums where we come together, and we have, you know, circles of discussions that we've sometimes bring in experts from the outside to share views with us on various topical areas that would be of interest to our type of staff, the diverse staff that we have. So I think the modeling of the behaviors, the being that advocate, speaking on their behalf, not being able to challenge sometimes Tara school, because there's a lot of fear in our institutions. I'm fear of losing my job. I'm fear of speaking up because I'll be retaliated against. And so sometimes the fear cripples us from doing the right thing. And so I try to empower people. We have to find ways of mitigating the fear once we know what we're doing is in the best interest of all of us, to speak truth to power, to be able to live a life where you're comfortable in your space, to bring the best of you to the institution, and when you do that in a safe space, you will bring your best and be able to impact change in a very profound way.

So what I am here is that sometimes it's for literacy. Require that you be courageous to take some risks. So you need to role model that, because you cannot ask other people to do it if you are not doing it yourself,

absolutely, David, you can say it more correctly, and I'll just share with you, because of the current climate that we have right now, I have sort of re imagined what women of color would look like, and we're starting to rebrand this whole new tagline that we have to become more inclusive. So we've actually just rebranded recently and to women of courage. So these women come with that sort of courageous feeling a level of confidence and poise and and feeling grounded enough to speak to share powerful stories. All the stories don't have to be negative. They can be powerful stories that have helped them to, you know, propel into different parts of their career journeys to advance their careers, to empower younger people who are coming up to take chances be innovative, think out of the box, because we really value innovation, fresh thinking. So those powerful stories come from women who are courageous to get up and talk, and some of those stories that may not be so powerful may not be so positive, it's talking about things that may have happened that could be perceived as setbacks, but how those courageous women use their inner strength and courage to sort of, if you want to call it, flip the narrative to something that could be more positively perceived.

You are an expert in the topics of Diversity Equity, and right now, with all of these new government policies in the United States, there are many challenges around that it sounds like you are. They have been a lot of progress. There were people very advanced in how to deal with decision and signal that we are going a couple of steps backwards. How you are, what are you seeing that are good practices for people to continue developing awareness? Because the issue is awareness. It's how aware you are about how these diversity issues enrich your work versus being in your way. Is anything that you're seeing that is working well?

And I think that's a very good question. We sort of in that transitionary mode now in terms of how we approach things differently, reimagining what diversity with equity and inclusion looks like in this world and in this climate, but without diluting the importance of embracing differences, without diluting the importance of realizing that everybody counts and everybody is to be perceived and respected and to be valued. And I think finding more inclusive ways of making people feel we all belong. We all have a right, and we all have a right to feel comfortable with who we are. And I think maybe listening and engaging people, listening to some of the challenges people are going through and the fears maybe they have, listening to them and helping them to understand it's okay sometimes to feel the feelings that they are feeling and experiencing. But how can we now move from that to becoming more inclusive, more more unified, more together, especially institutions like ours, to really what I would say champion, I would say the differences that we bring as it relates to. Our creative thinkings, our energies, our cultures, of ethnicities, to really be the best, I would say, development institutions that we are. Because I don't think we could be the best development institutions unless we really tap into those diverse perspectives, different ways of thinking and doing things. So I think, though, of course, we see turbulence out there, there are always ways around pausing, reflecting and finding more intentional ways of respecting differences, valuing differences and bringing out the best in people.

I were listening yesterday National Public Radio. They were talking about the consequence of lowering the percentage of immigrants coming to the United States, and they were saying how research shows that when there are more immigrants in case, in this case, the research was done in the United States, there are more innovation and creativity, not only from the people coming from other places, but also inspiring and supporting even Americans to be more innovative by bringing this diverse way of thinking and being, and the power of that diversity and the enrichment from that

absolutely, absolutely, I think this is why America is supposed to be. We say it's great place to be. Everybody wants to come here, alright? And so coming here, we should feel that we could bring all creativity with us, and then sort of harness them with all the others that are around to really get the best that we can. So I think you're right, without the different perspectives of the different immigrants that have come from all over the world, I don't think this country would be what it is today.

We had that in common. As you're coming from Trinidad to Hugo, I came from Argentina, yeah, we go, we live in the United States. We are committed to make this country great, like our nationally, like born in the United States. We are as committed, I think, to make this country great. And I have a question for you in terms of your experience, what happened when people are not ethical, when leaders are not being ethical, any experiences or any stories that we can learn from,

I could say, in particular, when we are not ethical, basically, there are some consequences. Can Lead without being ethical, but it's really sustainable, and it comes at a cost to the institution. It comes at a cost with trust and credibility and long term success. I can't point particularly right now to any example that I could share with you on this particular podcast, but I think let me spit it that when you are ethical, you tend to lead more with empathy and emotional intelligence, right? So you understand the diverse experiences and the needs and the perspectives of maybe your team, your colleagues and all those who you work with, you sort of anchor your decisions more ethics and values. So we would hope that we could encourage people to see the value add in being ethical, because when you're not ethical, there is a definite cost for that, right? So we want to maintain more inclusion and equitable leadership and promote that sort of way of of leading, as opposed to the opposite, which will just give you a lot of challenges in the in the long run, you may have short term gains, but it's definitely not sustainable, and

to start wrapping up any other tips or strategies for being an ethical leader that we have not covered yet

in our words today, for my looking with from a global perspective, it takes a lot of courage and for you to lead with integrity and empathy, but it's important for us To listen to the diverse voices that we come in contact with our colleagues or clients or stakeholder groups and make decisions that are really guided by what I would call ethics and creating safe spaces for people to talk up, speak up and innovate. So I would say globally, leaders who act with that sort of fairness and inclusivity, who are culturally aware. Don't just hit targets, if you're looking at, you know, business targets and goals and objectives, but they really, really inspire trust, resilience and lasting impact. And so I would say it's really better to be ethical, and from a global perspective, you can see that it's beneficial. Great.

Well, I really appreciate you joining us today to share all of your experience and your wisdom, and I wonder if there is anything else you want to say before we we finish today.

First of all, I want to say it's great reconnecting with you, and I would love to have you at the World Bank with us one of these days. It's so exciting when I saw you became the president of the International coaching Federation. Like, Oh my Oh, my God, go Damien, that's exciting. It really made me feel that I made some good selections. But I chose you and three others to be I think I remembered having four coaches when we started off the program at FAO. So I am so proud to see. You've taken such a great leap and put so much passion into coaching that you've even written a book about it, that I would say I'm looking forward to you coaching me as I write my next chapter. I don't want to release the name of the book, but it's going to have something to do with leadership and what drift drove me, and it will be very culturally induced, if you will. But I think global lessons could be learned from that. So I'm looking forward to you serving as my coach as I get on to that next chapter of writing something in the leadership space, which is something that I long to do. And so other than that, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity and to be a part of the podcast today. I hope this is not the first, and it's not the last. It's the first, but it's not the last that we could really exchange some dialogs in the leadership space on different topics that we think that will be important.

Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Looking forward to continue collaborating with you after so many years, and I really appreciate your time to be here with us today, and I also look forward to a future invitation to come back and continue the conversation, and that's a wrap up for today's LEAD with a coaching mindset. I am Damien Goldwater, thrilled to have shared this time with you. Don't forget to subscribe and give us a rating. Stay excited for more episodes. Take care and keep living with the coaching mindset you.