E6 | What Great Leaders Do: Lessons from UNICEF’s Global Talent Chief | Elaine Lowe

Welcome to Lead With a Coaching Mindset, a podcast where every conversation sparks new ideas on how the best leaders unlock their followers potential. I am Dr Damian Goldvarg, and I am here to inspire you to become the best leader you can be, be sure you subscribe and rate us. Let's jump right in. Hi. Welcome to Lead With a Coaching Mindset today we're very lucky to have with us. Elaine Lowe, she is the chief of talent development at UNICEF, and part of her responsibilities are learning leadership and career development. I know Elaine for many years, even before she worked at UNICEF. How many years? Oh

11. Yes, many years. And as Elena is a person that I really respect, admire. She has been doing wonderful work, and I was lucky to collaborate with her in some projects over the years. Thank you for accepting the invitation to be here with us, and we are going to be exploring together some examples about how you have seen at UNICEF, leaders developing a coaching mindset, leaders who are committed to bring their best out of their people, but invest in time, in their learning, in their development. To start. Elaine, do you want to tell us a little bit more about your responsibilities? About what do you do?

Thank you, Damon. First of all, it's a pleasure to be here, so thank you for having me. I manage a team of colleagues who have responsibility for leadership development, learning and development and career development, and what we have done is put career development at the center of learning. So we say to colleagues that in order for you to advance in your career, learning has to be a focus. And part of our coaching mindset that we encourage our leaders in particular, to demonstrate is, you know, we have all these competencies. We have eight competencies. And we encourage our colleagues who have been coached to focus on two or three competences at a time. Two or three of the leadership competences at a time. There's some leaders like I travel as part of my role. I travel to offices and have career conversations with staff. I have meetings with some of our leaders. And I've I've seen some amazing examples of leadership, and when I speak to them. What's a common theme is they've learned a lot from the executive coaching that they've had. They've learned a lot from the 360 feedback exercise that they've conducted and the debrief. So it's all connected to how they see learning and becoming better leaders. Everybody's trying to become the best version of themselves, because now we're now position, and probably have been in for many, many years, where we have to do more with less. So we have to operate at a more strategic level. We have to find ways as leaders to bring staff on board you're leading. What you need to have followers, and our best leaders have the entire office following them without hesitation, because they're still free to ask to question and challenge their leaders. So the two leaders in particular like to talk about because I think for me, the example was off the wall, that growth mindset that these leaders demonstrate openly. You know, they talk about failures, and not just successes, but they talk about failures, mistakes they've made, and the whole team learns from the mistakes, so there's no shame associated with not being perfect. Because in some organizations, and certainly even in UNICEF, at times, a lot of people want to project an image of perfection, that they never make a mistake, and to have a leader who can say, you know, this is what I did was not the best decision, but let's all learn from it. Let's all take the lesson from this. What can we learn? How can we normalize making errors but not create shame around that?

What I'm hearing from what you are saying is that great leaders, first, they have the ability to be open to receive feedback. Because this is not all. Leaders are open. Sometimes people feel like threatened or scared or sometimes resistant to receive that feedback, but these great leaders take advantage that UNICEF offer them with 360 to learn and become a better version of themselves, and that includes embracing the imperfection. Include embracing learning from mistake versus leaders who want to look perfect. My experience is I don't know if you agree with that. Many times the leader who want to look like everything is perfect is because they're insecure,

very insecure. The humility of the leaders, our best leaders, is that they know they're not perfect, and they want you to know that they're not perfect and that they learn from their mistakes, and want all of the team to also learn and not associate shame with mistakes, but rather learning and growing from errors. I mean, none of us are doing brain surgery. Nobody's gonna die. It's lovely to see that. So I went to this particular office in South Sudan, and I want to talk about this, the rep, how inclusive she was. So in our offices, especially in emergency duty stations, we have drivers were assigned. Usually, in most offices, you'll have a driver assigned to the rep. So that's like the senior driver, most experienced driver, senior drivers. So in this case, I wanted to meet with the drivers and just I have the career conversations with all of the drivers, and we have a group meeting. And then I say, well, let's arrange for the one on one. And so I said, so who is hamidaz driver? And they said, We're all her driver. We all drive her. When she came there was one driver who was her driver, and she says, I want to get to know all of you. You're all equally important to me. So one week it'll be one person. Another week it will be someone else. And she because of that, because, you know, this driver will pick her up in the morning, take her to work, but it's also the person who takes her to her official engagement, so and will then be waiting for her and take her home. So all of the drivers have had the privilege of getting to know her on a human level. It's not she's not the rep when they're driving well, she's a rep when they're driving her, but when she's talking to them, she's another human being who values all of them equally. And it's just that level of inclusion that not all managers recognize is pivotal to building team spirit, building staff morale, building loyalty, building that commitment, that I'll do anything. I mean, there's nothing I have to tell you. She had to have the funding for the office was cut, and she needed to have, she needs to make some colleagues redundant, right? We call it post Abolishment, and this happened just before the staff survey, where people got their letters, they were notified. I mean, they were formally notified, informally notified, verbally, and then they got their formal letters, because we have to give people six months notice, her office did among the best in the survey. Even though staff were leaving, they loved her so much, they were able to separate the situation from their circumstances. So there's a funding issue. That's one thing, but in terms of her leadership, in terms of staff morale, staff engagement those they were off the wall.

That's mean that people care about her so much, because probably she care about the people too.

She cares about her people. She shows absolute respect for every single person. There's no hierarchy. They know she's a rep. She doesn't need to tell them, I'm the rep. They know she's a rep, they respect that she's a rep, but they know they feel respected by her that level of inclusion you don't see everywhere. She was an amazing leader. She's retired, like amazing if

you would ask her, and how did she get there? What do you think she would answer?

She has had a lot of experience. She worked in Iraq. And I remember her saying, when she was offered the rep position in Iraq, I think it was by the region, either by the outgoing rep. I think she might have been a DEP rep, or it was a regional director. I can't remember who offered her the job. And she says, No, I can't I wouldn't be able to do that. I don't think I could do that. And he said, No, you are the perfect person for that. And and she said it was one of her most amazing opportunities in terms of how she worked with these men. They loved her, all these government officials that she thought would not accept her because she was a woman, but they had worked with her as a debt rep. They wanted her as their as the rep for the country office. And she said her gender, which she thought would be a problem, was not a problem, and it's just the way she leads. The way she leads is very strategic, but she's also very human, just linking the way what UNICEF needed from government counterparts and civil society, but also ensuring that what they got from us was exactly what they wanted. You know, just engaging them, rather than we have in international development, people who come and tell you what you're going to get without consulting you about what you need. She wasn't like that. She was consultative and. Has made such a difference to the country program in Iraq. When she was there, we have some great reps. I have to say she's one of them.

Some people may not know what rep means. Rep as a representative, I need the head of the Office of the country, head of the office so the major authority, the leader of the office in the country. And related to this, I was wondering that collaboration is one of the key values of UNICEF, too. So my and I have been working with UNICEF for many years, and I know that the leaders who embrace these values, even you hire me to do some work around that you remember, like to do some trainings about the new value when they came out. Yes, it seemed that if people really embraced them, they did. They can be these amazing leaders. The challenge is how people can do that, how they go from intentions to really doing it,

tactical applications. I think it helps when you have good leaders, you learn from them. You can model when you have leaders who role model the appropriate behaviors, you know, active listening the way they they ask powerful questions rather than tell you what to do. I think that makes a difference. And those leaders that provide developmentally focused feedback, so instead of telling you what you did wrong, they'll highlight ways that you could do it differently. So there's no shame in the fact that you didn't do it perfectly, but this is how you could do it in future, just to be mindful, more mindful of eye contact or engage in the audience. You know, the way they give feedback makes is focused on how to improve, rather than what you did wrong. More constructive. Feedback. Very constructive. Very, very constructive. And they're decisive. I've seen great leaders who are very decisive. They take decisions, but their decision making is is done in a way that empowers rather than disempowers. Because, you know, decisions can be taken that really leave you feeling disempowered. But and I can speak about Hamida, and I can speak about another rep, tajidin, in Afghanistan, another country office, where I saw him in a team meeting where all the staff in the office came to the meeting, and there had been a complaint about the staff making noise on a Saturday, which is equivalent to a Sunday in a Christian country. And he told them, he said, this is a problem, and they have complained, I'm not going to tell you what to do. I know you know what to do, and I expect you to do what you know is right, because if they get upset with us, there will be consequences, and you won't be able to gather on a Saturday, and they can mandate that from outside. So I'm leaving the decision to you on how we were going to conduct ourselves going forward, especially on a Saturday, when they're worshiping and they're observing silence, they don't want to hear our noise because we don't worship on that day, it's not acceptable. So I'm leaving it up to you, because I know you know what to do. I know you know how to handle it. I sat there and I'm like, wow, he empowered them. Literally said, go make the right decision about how you behave on us. Actually, I felt that was him saying the decision will be, if you make noise, we will lose the right to gather on a Saturday noise and get together. But I'm not going to make that decision. I'm going to leave it to you to determine how the outcome will look. And he said something about the outcome is dependent on you, so I leave it to you. I loved it. I loved it. They all know what the outcome is going to be if they don't get their act together. And he said, Be Your brother's keeper, something like that. So if I mess up, my neighbor will know I'm messing up, and needs to say something to me. You know, I loved it. I loved it. I loved that level of emotional regulation and awareness on he's not going to get upset regardless of what is happening. He was the coolest cat. Cool, cool, cool. Just said, this is a complaint I've received, and these are the consequences if we don't change our behavior. And I'm leaving it up to you,

I think that this collaborative approach makes a big difference when people he share facts and engage people in deciding what to do. I think that makes a big difference.

And one another thing that I saw with him. I mean, I see it with all the top reps. I mean, honestly, I could say the same thing about hamido, but what I saw with him was his commitment to the success of all of his staff in that office, like bringing me in to do the career conversations, or to have to meet with the staff one on one, to have these conversations, but also to do workshops enable people to understand how they need to better manage their careers, was one thing I remember. Like. Debt reps, and we have these un country team programs that are run out of bond. We have different leadership development programs that he had been on. And he would write and say, Elaine, when is the next UN country team development program? When is the next DEP Leadership Initiative Program? Because I have my depra, but I think he'd be amazing. I want to invest in him or her, and he would say, Elaine, I think so and so needs a coach. Who would you recommend? I need someone who's going to help him or her to think more strategically and just present their facts. Because they're bright. They're very bright, but sometimes it just doesn't come out the way it needs to come out, and I want to help them to just be the best version of themselves when they're talking, not to get caught up in the nerves. I mean, he's amazing, just totally amazing.

And to start wrapping up when you have you have been working training leaders and developing leaders and offering coaching to leaders so they can be the best version of themselves for many years. What do you think are some of the challenges for leaders to implement and to do all of the things that we share today? Certainly

for leaders in UNICEF, our reality, their reality is especially those who are working in emergency contexts, you know, or humanitarian context, as we call it, time, and the stress levels that they operate under, sometimes they want to do it differently, but there's a rush. Everything has to be happening. You know, there's so much coming at them all at once. They need to meet the needs of their supervisors. They need to attend those meetings with other peers. They need to support their team. They have their own direct reports, as well as the broader team. Everybody in the office. There are a lot of demands on them, and sometimes even though they have been coached and know what to do in the heat of the moment, they may not always remember the best approach. Could a human. They're human, but I would say we have managers who it's more part of their natural response to situations. They're quite calm, very regulated, very mindful and aware of how they interact with colleagues. And some will tell you, I learn a lot from my coach. Some will tell you I've done a coaching course so I can improve my leadership. And some will say I've been leading people for many years, and I've learned along the way from my mistakes. You know, they're different there, and all of them have a different journey, but I think ultimately they tend to demonstrate the same positive behaviors, and they're very careful how they interact with staff, what they say, they never say, I told you, so they take that feedback, or they really think and give due consideration. I've had a rep call me and say, Elaine, I got my 360 and I've had 360 feedback, and I've had my debrief, and I've had my five hours of coaching, and I'd like some more with the same coach, because it has helped me, and I think I need a little bit more hand holding to become even better, just to get there where it becomes more my natural behavior, rather than I thinking about it, because the coach had held him as an accountability partner. So there was a little check in it was regular check ins. How did you demonstrate this? Based on the three competencies that he fell down on, and he is one of our top ones today, too.

Thank you. Thank you for sharing all of these examples. And my experience. Elaine is also working with different kind of organization, not only humanitarian, but nonprofits or for profit, or universities this issue of time, there is so much on the plate, even though you want to spend time in developing others, in having these coaching moments, under pressure, under stress, difficult. And I think, I believe, is one of the main challenges for leaders, how to find the time. And also, sometimes I like to ask some of the leaders I work with, what do they cost if you don't do it? Yeah,

I think for some of them, the cost is that they haven't been able to bring their team along, you know, because they're taking decisions rather than helping team to grow to that point where they can take decisions in their absence. They're not asking questions to help people to think more critically about what has happened or what needs to happen next. They're I think the best of our managers are our more experienced managers who have come through the system and learned along the way, made mistakes. Uh and had coaching, had three, six days that they really took seriously in terms of the feedback, and they embraced that. But I think the biggest problem is when you're under pressure and someone has given you something that if you took 10 or 15 minutes to help them, to give them the feedback on how they could improve it, but you don't have that 15 minutes. You got to correct it yourself. And that's happened to me where I've had to make the change because it's needed. No, I don't have the time, but what I've done is gone back and said I did make these changes. Here are the changes I made, and these are the reasons why I made those changes. And I hope you're not not feeling bad that you didn't give me good quality work, because that's the last thing you want someone to feel, is that it's rubbish. So you've gone and changed it. But it was changes I needed to make, and I had an opportunity to look at it early enough to then have the conversation again time. So it was at the last minute. I thought, let me look at it before I send it forward. I didn't have the time to have the conversation, but I did do it after. We also have the challenge or not, all of us are in the same location. That is problematic, because if you then have to go and schedule a meeting to do it online, as opposed to, hey, come I have something to tell you. I have something to show you. It's different when you can just do it in the moment. Takes five minutes, rather than you have to schedule, you have to check calendars.

So this is, this is one of the challenges of hybrid work, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Elaine, we need to finish here. Anything you want to say into close, any last words?

Well, I really appreciate that trust, that relationship we develop over the years, and as I said at the beginning, I really respect you. You do amazing work for UNICEF, and it has been a pleasure to collaborate over the years. So thanks again for being part of this interview today and being our guest in our podcast, and I hope that you may come back in

the future. Thank you, Damien, was a pleasure. Bye, bye,

and that's a wrap up for today's LEAD with a coaching mindset. I am. Damien Goldberg, thrilled to have shared this time with you. Don't forget to subscribe and give us a rating. Stay excited for more episodes, take care and keep living with a coaching mindset you.